News of the Day III

[RSchmitz]

So Biden was told the only way he could secure Griner's release was to give up "The Merchant of Death", and he said ok let's do it....

[the_narrow_way]

It's definitely not an even swap but the bottom line is an American held by Russia and unfairly sentenced has been brought back home.

[RSchmitz]

It's definitely not an even swap but the bottom line is an American held by Russia and unfairly sentenced has been brought back home.

No, that is not the bottom line.

[the_narrow_way]

No, that is not the bottom line.

What's your bottom line?

[RSchmitz]

What's your bottom line?

Saying her returning home is the bottom line means that releasing an international terrorist with the blood of thousands of Americans on his hands means nothing.

There are tens of thousands of Americans jailed internationally for breaking laws in foreign nations, many who are actually innocent. Griner did get caught smuggling her weed into Russia and was hit with a sentence any of us would have been given. How is Griners life more important than the life of all of these other parties effected? It’s not

[Puckhead]

Of course, we don't know what the negotiations were behind the scenes. Putin may well have said this is the deal-take it or leave it. We don't know and you don't know.

[RSchmitz]

Of course, we don't know what the negotiations were behind the scenes. Putin may well have said this is the deal-take it or leave it. We don't know and you don't know.

We do know, the details from those involved in negotiations are on every news site. Putin said give up the most prolific arms dealer in history responsible for exponentially more American deaths than OBL for someone who got caught smuggling their personal weed across national borders, and Biden said yes. Senior law enforcement officials strenuously objected and he made the decision anyways.

[RSchmitz]

Puckhead the reason he was only serving 25 years was because he was great at avoiding getting caught, the Nicholas Cage movie "Lord of War" which is based on him depicts this well. His 25 years was for conspiring to kill Americans, but there is no doubt he's actually responsible for much, much more.

In an ideal world you are correct, there is no one I would release Bout for. The many, many, many people who are dead, nations that are in turmoil, or families he has ruined deserve justice. However I also understand his value as a trade chip, there are situations of national security that I think have to supersede his imprisonment. That is the only reason I think as a president you have any right to set someone like Bout free, essential national security interests. If you are going to make a trade it has to be because there is no other way, you apologize to the families he's ruined, and you explain to the American people why the trade was necessary. You also pray to god that he is never involved in anything else, which you have no assurances of.

Does this trade check any of those boxes other than it being a fill or kill order from Putin? Do you think the average American is going to buy that if they got caught with pot in Russia and sentenced to jail, that their government would trade "The Merchant of Death" in order to secure their release?

This trade should have never happened

[the_narrow_way]

I'm not saying it's equivalent. The news I've read said that it was Griner or nothing so they took what they could get. What if the deal was Whelan for Bout?

[Puckhead]

I'm not saying it's equivalent. The news I've read said that it was Griner or nothing so they took what they could get. What if the deal was Whelan for Bout?

Bolton says Trump nixed the deal. Hard to know how much Trump really analyzed that deal. My guess he was more worried about the blowback from Fox than the details of the trade.

As to Bout, again, I'm skeptical as to how much or his prior mischief can be cranked up being that its at least 10 years he's been out of the loops. Holes have been filled, conflicts have changed, etc etc.

But again, and Schmitzy may disagree, It may have been this deal or no deal, being that Whelan was (wrongly) accused of espionage and Griner had a smokestack. And if the right/Fox found out that the Biden administration (not Biden specifically) had nixed that deal they'd have been all over it. After all, to Fox, she was "An American citizen". ( Black, lesbian/ BBball player not withstanding)

[RSchmitz]

I'm not saying it's equivalent. The news I've read said that it was Griner or nothing so they took what they could get. What if the deal was Whelan for Bout?

No, I would only trade Russian nationals guilty of similar offenses. There are way too many Americans abroad serving time who shouldn't be, it's unethical to decide one persons life is worth saving but another isn't. Some risks you knowingly take when you go to a foreign nation.

Glad you brought up Whelan, I wonder how he feels right now knowing his nation had an opportunity to do the same thing for him several years ago and chose not to. Until yesterday I guess he probably thought his life was equal.

[RSchmitz]

Bolton says Trump nixed the deal. Hard to know how much Trump really analyzed that deal. My guess he was more worried about the blowback from Fox than the details of the trade.

As to Bout, again, I'm skeptical as to how much or his prior mischief can be cranked up being that its at least 10 years he's been out of the loops. Holes have been filled, conflicts have changed, etc etc.

Difficult to believe I am saying this but it's much more likely Trump actually just listened to his National Security and Senior Law Enforcement advisors here and even his dumbass could see that releasing a guy like Bout was a bad idea. Why would FOX give him blowback? More like a blowjob, Whalen is an ex-marine.

I have no idea why you are handwaving away what Bout could do still in the criminal underground world. The number of years it took to catch him, we may never catch him again so we won't know, but my guess is that underground arms dealers are in high demand right now.

It's also irrelevant, he isn't in jail for what he could do, he's in jail for what he's already done. We wouldn't release Osama bin Laden after any amount of jail time because "he's out of the loop", would we?

But again, and Schmitzy may disagree, It may have been this deal or no deal, being that Whelan was (wrongly) accused of espionage and Griner had a smokestack. And if the right/Fox found out that the Biden administration (not Biden specifically) had nixed that deal they'd have been all over it. After all, to Fox, she was "An American citizen". ( Black, lesbian/ BBball player not withstanding)

Is that what Fox was saying? Doesn't sound right. If Biden made this decision because he's worried about what FOX thinks than this exchange is far worse than I thought. However I have read that it's likely the pressure he was receiving from celebrities and others ended up raising the stakes and got Putin involved.

I don't know why you keep saying that it "may" have been a deal or no deal. It was definitely deal or no deal based on what negotiators have said, the only thing we don't have confirmation on is that if the one pulling the strings was definitely Putin but....who else could it be?

[RSchmitz]

Yeah Putin traded for Bout who is just going to go back to Russia and retire....

I'm sure Pete will add this to his list of wins for Biden though

[jdhebner]

Oh and the nuclear fusion breakthrough is bullshit. They didn’t count the total energy input to do everything. I’m guessing they are 5 percent of total energy input

[Bolthed]

Cmon who doesn’t have 2 or 300 MJ sitting around?