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  • Originally posted by RSchmitz View Post

    I don’t believe in applying “whataboutism” to determine what is a right and just in this world, I believe individuals should be judged for their individual deeds. This girl had a knife in her hand and mid lunge, would have stabbed another girl who was pinned against a vehicle if not stopped, that is why she was shot. I don’t even understand the counterpoint here, there is a deadly weapon being used in the presence of a cop, should he wait for someone to be murdered to take action? How do you think he should have handled that situation?

    I don’t believe how other police officers dealt with Rittenhouse is relevant to this situation. I get people wanting to protest the system, but this officer shouldn’t be a target in that protest when he may have well saved a life
    I do agree with what you're saying. The initial reporting was the young girl called for help and the police that responded to her call for help ending up killing her without so much of a word was immediately made sensational the moment the bodycam footage was used and in that instance I honestly can't find fault with the officer's actions in that split second.

    But on the other hand, we can pull back and ask why this black girl was killed while attempting to inflict harm while white men(boy in Rittenhouse's case) who have done far more damage seem to be handled with kid gloves and attempt to address the bias that leads to those wildly different responses to similar(if not more extreme in the case of the Atlanta shooter's) attacks.
    Gudas Priest

    Comment


    • Originally posted by ChaseSpace View Post

      I do agree with what you're saying. The initial reporting was the young girl called for help and the police that responded to her call for help ending up killing her without so much of a word was immediately made sensational the moment the bodycam footage was used and in that instance I honestly can't find fault with the officer's actions in that split second.

      But on the other hand, we can pull back and ask why this black girl was killed while attempting to inflict harm while white men(boy in Rittenhouse's case) who have done far more damage seem to be handled with kid gloves and attempt to address the bias that leads to those wildly different responses to similar(if not more extreme in the case of the Atlanta shooter's) attacks.
      There are over a million violent crimes committed in the United States every year, and that is the ones we know about. I think we can and should ask why each case is treated differently when police are involved, but I also don't think cherry picking the outliers as a barometer to how we should treat all police interactions is a great approach either. I truthfully do not know much about Rittenhouse other than the he had an assault rifle and killed 2 other people, and the right made a big stink over it because one of the victims had a gun and they tried to claim he did it in self defense. I'm also pretty sure he gave up peacefully(I could be wrong here). If he did, I think that's the answer. Police officers shoot to stop a suspect from committing violence, I think that is very different than summarily executing someone surrendering after they have already done it.
      If no government system will guarantee a utopia, then our best choice is to look for the least exploitive one

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      • Originally posted by RSchmitz View Post

        Police officers shoot to stop a suspect from committing violence, I think that is very different than summarily executing someone surrendering after they have already done it.
        Again, I don't disagree but when there's a pretty clear racial divide in when and how police feel the need to use force on a suspect it continues to throw dry wood onto the fire of radically re-envisioning what local policing should be.
        Gudas Priest

        Comment


        • Yeah, tell Black folks what an outlier they are. You and I don’t know — can’t know — what this is like. We’ve seen instances where they’ve been murdered by police after surrendering a weapon. That just happened in Chicago. And I think it’s more than fair to ask why this girl had to die in this case. The officer just ended her without saying boo.

          You can callously call it whataboutism, but we have a tragic widespread problem with the way police perceive different races as threats regardless of their actions.
          “Could I had posted cite a site?” — WWW dot Trump makes you dumb dot RU

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Bolthed View Post
            Yeah, tell Black folks what an outlier they are. You and I don’t know — can’t know — what this is like. We’ve seen instances where they’ve been murdered by police after surrendering a weapon. That just happened in Chicago. And I think it’s more than fair to ask why this girl had to die in this case. The officer just ended her without saying boo.

            You can callously call it whataboutism, but we have a tragic widespread problem with the way police perceive different races as threats regardless of their actions.
            You are broadening off the initial point he made though. It is easy to reconcile that minorities are unfairly targeted by police, and that this was still justifiable. The training is when you discharge a weapon, you discharge to eliminate the threat. They are trained to shoot to kill, not wound. I think the question of why is that the case is a good one to have, but again, in this specific situation, he probably used the correct force as taught. And that is not a black vs white issue. I really don't think if its a white person in the act of attempting to stab another person the outcome goes differently.

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            • At some point, police depts have to come to the realization that it's in their best long-term interests to NOT be facing a populace (AA's) that are spring loaded against them; particularly when it comes to the use of non-lethal and lethal force. And that is going to take at least a decade of new recruiting and reforms to permeate local PD's. Apparently, LEO's are leaving the service at a more than typical rate. I suspect that some (or many) are afraid of being targeted, or sued, for not following protocols. This may be a big opportunity to restructure/retrain/reform local PD's. Fingers crossed.
              "Who are white supremacists?" Proud Boys. "Well I tell the Proud Boys to stand back, and stand by"

              Comment


              • Originally posted by ChaseSpace View Post

                I do agree with what you're saying. The initial reporting was the young girl called for help and the police that responded to her call for help ending up killing her without so much of a word was immediately made sensational the moment the bodycam footage was used and in that instance I honestly can't find fault with the officer's actions in that split second.

                But on the other hand, we can pull back and ask why this black girl was killed while attempting to inflict harm while white men(boy in Rittenhouse's case) who have done far more damage seem to be handled with kid gloves and attempt to address the bias that leads to those wildly different responses to similar(if not more extreme in the case of the Atlanta shooter's) attacks.
                White "kids" like Rittenhouse are treated with kid gloves because they are white. White supremacy runs deep in many LEO agencies.
                I’m a senior. As are Donnie, Puckhead, and JB.

                Who knew?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by BurnTHalO View Post

                  You are broadening off the initial point he made though. It is easy to reconcile that minorities are unfairly targeted by police, and that this was still justifiable. The training is when you discharge a weapon, you discharge to eliminate the threat. They are trained to shoot to kill, not wound. I think the question of why is that the case is a good one to have, but again, in this specific situation, he probably used the correct force as taught. And that is not a black vs white issue. I really don't think if its a white person in the act of attempting to stab another person the outcome goes differently.
                  Cmon man, there are countless examples of white people attacking police and living to tell the tale. Shit, there’s video of a white guy firing a gun at a cop who was chasing him and then being let go. ​​​​​​​
                  “Could I had posted cite a site?” — WWW dot Trump makes you dumb dot RU

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Bolthed View Post

                    Cmon man, there are countless examples of white people attacking police and living to tell the tale. Shit, there’s video of a white guy firing a gun at a cop who was chasing him and then being let go.

                    Look I'm not arguing against racism in police, or that race hasn't played an issue in tons of police fatalities. I'm arguing I don't think this case is all about race (maybe I should have worded it to state I'm talking about this officer, not all police). I'm giving to cop a benefit of the doubt in this case that in the same situation where a white person is actively about to stab someone else he would use force. Obviously we would never know, but I do think it's tough judging a cop for shooting someone actively attempting to stab other people. He jumped out saw this girl charging with a knife and opened fire. There was an active threat to a civilian. I'm just having a tough time equating this to a lot of the other killings we have seen in the last year.

                    Comment


                    • A simple police reform idea that doesn't seem to get much traction but I think would go a long way in de-escalating tensions is to require officers to actually live in the precincts they work.

                      Hell, in my hometown of Williston(FL) the current Chief of Police is from and still lives in Ocala and is actually combative to people when they ask why he doesn't move to the town he's supposed to be over seeing.
                      Gudas Priest

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by ChaseSpace View Post

                        Again, I don't disagree but when there's a pretty clear racial divide in when and how police feel the need to use force on a suspect it continues to throw dry wood onto the fire of radically re-envisioning what local policing should be.
                        One of the first questions asked at the conference in which the video was released, was why officer didn't do anything to de-escalate the situation. Seriously. I would love to re-envision the way the police works....if it works. But I also think people need to have some realistic expectations
                        If no government system will guarantee a utopia, then our best choice is to look for the least exploitive one

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Bolthed View Post
                          Yeah, tell Black folks what an outlier they are. You and I don’t know — can’t know — what this is like. We’ve seen instances where they’ve been murdered by police after surrendering a weapon. That just happened in Chicago. And I think it’s more than fair to ask why this girl had to die in this case. The officer just ended her without saying boo.

                          You can callously call it whataboutism, but we have a tragic widespread problem with the way police perceive different races as threats regardless of their actions.
                          You can ask, there should always be questions when someone is shot. What you can't do is ignore all of the evidence as to why it was justifiable and act as if this is just another case where police shot and killed without cause. People are marching and demanding that this officer face repercussions, and no, it's not callous to say that this officer deserves to be judged based on his own actions.
                          If no government system will guarantee a utopia, then our best choice is to look for the least exploitive one

                          Comment


                          • But why do we accept this? Police kill more than two people every day. What’s justifiable to you is a sad commentary to me on our society. Neither you nor anyone can say what would have happened if the cop attempted to de-escalate. Maybe ask yourself why killing another human being is OK in your eyes while you spend your energy telling other people how they can and cannot act after another life is extinguished.
                            “Could I had posted cite a site?” — WWW dot Trump makes you dumb dot RU

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Bolthed View Post
                              But why do we accept this? Police kill more than two people every day. What’s justifiable to you is a sad commentary to me on our society. Neither you nor anyone can say what would have happened if the cop attempted to de-escalate. Maybe ask yourself why killing another human being is OK in your eyes while you spend your energy telling other people how they can and cannot act after another life is extinguished.
                              You're going with this de-escalate non-sense, yikes. Did you watch the video? I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that the explanation is you haven't watched the video yet. Watch the bodycam and tell me if you still think the cop had the time and ability to de-escalate with a happy ending.

                              I accept the outcome because he potentially saved a life. I do not like the outcome, that's called a tragedy. I fucking hate guns and wish we didn't live in a society where guns were acceptable solutions, but we do and that is a much broader problem and issue and not this officers fault.

                              I understand people close to Bryant being outraged and being irrational, and I understand knee jerk assumptions and how this hits the AA community differently. However as a bunch of white guys detached from that situation, we should be able to speak logically about it without invoking how much of an outrage it is.
                              If no government system will guarantee a utopia, then our best choice is to look for the least exploitive one

                              Comment


                              • Looks like the J and J vaccine will be resumed shortly. CDC also recommends pregnant women should get vaccine
                                If no government system will guarantee a utopia, then our best choice is to look for the least exploitive one

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