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  • Originally posted by Hoek View Post
    Already played with fire once by tacitly approving his nomination (because he'd be easy for Hillary to beat!) and got burned. No way do you toy with that again.
    This.
    Bullshit Centrist and Ondrej Palat fan club member

    Comment


    • I'm hoping the Georgia AG starting a criminal investigation into Trump's phone calls to the Secretary of State and others leads into some serious charges, even possible jail time. You'd think at some point in his long life he'd be held accountable for something, ANYTHING, wouldn't you?

      Comment


      • Seeing as how recent surveys have shown that 70% of registered Republicans would consider switching to a Trump-led 3rd Party and 4 out of 10 Republicans think political violence may be necessary to keep from being "oppressed" I want that cancer excised from not just politics but daily life and the roots of that rot pulled out with him.
        Gudas Priest

        Comment


        • Originally posted by ChaseSpace View Post
          Seeing as how recent surveys have shown that 70% of registered Republicans would consider switching to a Trump-led 3rd Party and 4 out of 10 Republicans think political violence may be necessary to keep from being "oppressed" I want that cancer excised from not just politics but daily life and the roots of that rot pulled out with him.
          The vast majority of this originates from the financial crisis of 2008 when the Republicans bait and switched congressional Democrats, the optics were horrible. The bail out of the banks/motor/institutions was an extremely unpopular move but economists agreed had to be done to stop the bleeding and prevent the nation from entering a depression. In order to get the damn thing passed, both sides had to agree to get at least half the votes so no side looked crooked. Well, Democrats came through with the votes, while two faced Republicans flipped on Henry Paulson and lame duck George Bush jr and took the opportunity to paint a picture that Democrats were in league with Wall Street. The Tea Party and Trump came out of that, and it's going to take a long time to undo the damage.
          If no government system will guarantee a utopia, then our best choice is to look for the least exploitive one

          Comment


          • There's no undoing it, IMO. The political realignment was already happening because the more diverse the country gets the more it becomes difficult for cosmopolitan Americans to accept the inequalities built into our system. As a consequence, the more heterogenous areas of the country (also more educated), which are the urban and affluent suburban areas of the country have been trending blue really for the last roughly 20 years. Rural and exurban areas have been trending red. Dubya's folksy mannerisms and inability to string together two sentences combined with Republican messaging against "elitism" (education being one component of "elitism") helped along the trend. Trump was like pouring lighter fluid on a fire for that trend, though.

            What is the future of the two parties? Democrats a tenuous and diverse coalition of educated and wealthy white suburbanites and people of color. They'll slowly begin to attract more of the "fat cats" over to Team Blue and the fault lines in the party will be between people of color trying to unrig the system and some of the wealthy white folks who agree in principle, but are nonetheless going to be vexed by the tearing down of systems they've prospered off of.

            Republicans? More of the same. A nativist, white supremacist populist party railing against the "elitism" of the cities and their inner suburbs. Incapable of winning presidentials unless team blue's coalition fractures and shrinking over time as the county continues to urbanize and diversify.

            If Democrats were really clever, they'd make it a priority to create a new-age TVA specifically designed to improve the education levels and mobility of rural youth. Rural broadband. Increased investment in public education in rural areas. Better rural hospitals. Targeted investments in green power in rural communities. The best way to erode the Republican base, IMO, is to increase their education levels and affluence. It also happens to be a good and right thing to do, although again, you're going to have a fault line among Democrats wondering why the party is focusing on bailing out rural whites while communities of color have been suffering disproportionately for generations.
            S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-Stammermeter 2019-2020: 29

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            • From today’s New York Times:

              A majority of Republicans still view President Biden’s election as illegitimate — and more than half would justify the use of force to defend “the traditional American way of life,” according to a poll released on Day 3 of former President Donald J. Trump’s impeachment trial.

              Two-thirds of Republicans — 66 percent — said Mr. Biden’s election was not legitimate, compared with far smaller percentages of Democrats and independents who question the outcome, according to a survey taken during the last 10 days of January by the American Enterprise Institute, a nonpartisan think-tank that promotes conservative economic policies.
              There are no independents anymore. There is no one left to sway. Fox News is barely broadcasting the trial. GOP senators, who are what’s left of whatever conservative leadership there is now, are almost 100% dismissive of the entire premise of the trial.

              These fuckhead senators know there’s no future for them without stoking the same racist, violent themes of radical leftist oppression!! Their followers believe they are victims and they’ve been cultivated for YEARS to feel like victims. That’s what cancel culture is, BTW.

              No, most of the GOP sees the landscape right now and are choosing to go down with the ship. That’s why the Dems HAVE TO do everything they can to address the foundational issues of this democracy (like passing the new Lewis VRA and somehow untucking gerrymandered districts and making DC a state).

              Dems care way more about things like optics and norms and repercussions than nihilistic Republicans whose only policy goals mostly concern staying in power. So how can you have a substantive debate with that kind of opponent?

              The whole dynamic of minority rule (and the fuckin crazy elected officials it spawns) would change if the system weren’t so crooked.

              So fuck the optics ... there’s barely anyone to sway who isn’t already a victim of the rising menace of leftist socialists.
              If Dems don’t make significant changes to alter the intentional structures the Republicans put in place to create minority rule in our government, then they will inevitably take back enough power to unleash something worse than Trump.
              “Could I had posted cite a site?” — WWW dot Trump makes you dumb dot RU

              Comment


              • Originally posted by RSchmitz View Post

                The vast majority of this originates from the financial crisis of 2008 when the Republicans bait and switched congressional Democrats, the optics were horrible. The bail out of the banks/motor/institutions was an extremely unpopular move but economists agreed had to be done to stop the bleeding and prevent the nation from entering a depression. In order to get the damn thing passed, both sides had to agree to get at least half the votes so no side looked crooked. Well, Democrats came through with the votes, while two faced Republicans flipped on Henry Paulson and lame duck George Bush jr and took the opportunity to paint a picture that Democrats were in league with Wall Street. The Tea Party and Trump came out of that, and it's going to take a long time to undo the damage.
                Bullseye.
                It was exacerbated by Obama's feckless and callow justice department and useless AG, Eric Holder. When nobody went to jail for breaking the global economy because "it was hard to prove", it cemented a hell of a lot of people's (not unreasonable) conclusion that they merely exist to be exploited by elites and moneyed interests, so fuck em all, Trump will be my hammer. Those people aren't coming back to Democrats, nor are they interested in establishment Republicans. That's part of the cult around Trump, whether rightly or wrongly. The never Trumpers hold no sway over that part of the base, and frankly don't have much credibility with them.

                Democrats need to deliver, and they'll keep the coalition together that Pete describes.

                Frankly, the pendulum is overdue to start swinging back towards labor, we've been prioritizing the concerns of capital for the last 40 years now. Anti-Trust is a pretty good silver bullet to create more wealth in the middle class (the silver bullet isn't the minimum wage, but that will help lower economic classes). Pete makes the good point that the best way to erode the support for Trump is to increase the wealth, which would blunt the criticism that establishment politicians don't work for the majority of people. The problem both Democrats and Republicans have is that you've had hard right (Republican) and soft right (Democratic) economic policy for 40 years. It's a bit hard to come back and say yeah, we've been banging on that drum for 40 years, and that's what we've been running on, but now we wanna go the other way. Democrats being as inept on messaging as they normally are, that's going to be a steep uphill climb.
                Bullshit Centrist and Ondrej Palat fan club member

                Comment


                • Yep. Most damaging of all was the decades of unchecked misinformation on social media.

                  I don't think that simply educating rural America is going to go far though, those are just a different breed of people who have core values of self sufficiency.
                  If no government system will guarantee a utopia, then our best choice is to look for the least exploitive one

                  Comment


                  • Meh. It’s going to take centuries to correct. Not everyone needs to be a Rocket Scientist but we need to start teaching the skill of discernment at a very early age: how do we recognize what is objectively true (the sun revolves around the earth). What is objectively false (vaccines cause autism) what is opinion (I hate cilantro) and what is not well understood (like cancer). Too many people seek affirmation rather than confirmation based upon the convergence of evidence. Too many famous people spouting shit that is objectively false.

                    sigh.
                    "To Serve Man" It's a Cookbook!

                    Comment


                    • How on earth is the meeting between Trump's impeachment lawyers and Senate Republicans IN THE MIDDLE OF THE IMPEACHMENT TRIAL ok? Every senator that attended that meeting should be expelled from the jury pool immediately. This shit has got to stop.
                      Gudas Priest

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by jdhebner View Post
                        Meh. It’s going to take centuries to correct. Not everyone needs to be a Rocket Scientist but we need to start teaching the skill of discernment at a very early age: how do we recognize what is objectively true (the sun revolves around the earth). What is objectively false (vaccines cause autism) what is opinion (I hate cilantro) and what is not well understood (like cancer). Too many people seek affirmation rather than confirmation based upon the convergence of evidence. Too many famous people spouting shit that is objectively false.

                        sigh.
                        ”affirmation” vs “confirmation”.... sums it up nicely. (In a different vein, “entertained” vs “informed”)

                        "Who are white supremacists?" Proud Boys. "Well I tell the Proud Boys to stand back, and stand by"

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Bolthed View Post
                          From today’s New York Times:



                          There are no independents anymore.
                          Actually, the number of independents is the fastest growing group out there. No one wants to be associated with either party.
                          “Every man who has stepped foot on the moon launched from the Kennedy Space Center, in Florida. Yet, Florida has failed to figure out how to run an election properly — a task simpler than rocket science.”

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                          • Yeah at least by name they're out there. The problem is there's nowhere for them to swing to the right to any more.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by ChaseSpace View Post
                              How on earth is the meeting between Trump's impeachment lawyers and Senate Republicans IN THE MIDDLE OF THE IMPEACHMENT TRIAL ok? Every senator that attended that meeting should be expelled from the jury pool immediately. This shit has got to stop.
                              It doesn't matter. Trump's attorneys could stand up today and say, "We can't lie. Trump, personally organized and ordered the taking of the capitol. Here are the cancelled checks to Qanon Shaman and the others." If Trump stood up and said that they are lying - 60% of republicans would believe him and 40 senators would vote to acquit.
                              “Every man who has stepped foot on the moon launched from the Kennedy Space Center, in Florida. Yet, Florida has failed to figure out how to run an election properly — a task simpler than rocket science.”

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Donnie D View Post

                                It doesn't matter. Trump's attorneys could stand up today and say, "We can't lie. Trump, personally organized and ordered the taking of the capitol. Here are the cancelled checks to Qanon Shaman and the others." If Trump stood up and said that they are lying - 60% of republicans would believe him and 40 senators would vote to acquit.
                                Or, better yet, Trump says, “Yeah, it’s all true. So what?” And 60% of R’s say well, that’s OK and 40 Sens still vote to acquit.

                                Trump wasn’t joking nor was he inaccurate when he said he could shoot somebody and not lose any votes.
                                "Who are white supremacists?" Proud Boys. "Well I tell the Proud Boys to stand back, and stand by"

                                Comment

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