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  • I guess my personal viewpoint at this time in our history boils down to nearly half of the voters in this country actively voted against their own personal well-being if it meant making the "other side" unhappy and to try and appease them is asinine and a fucking waste of time. The talk of letting Trump and cronies off the hook for all of the crimes they committed after the inauguration ramping up only further solidifies that idea in my head because it just tells them they can get away with that in the future.
    Gudas Priest

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    • Originally posted by BurnTHalO View Post

      I'd be careful with that thought process. What was the history of those seats? Were they historically Republican seats that the Democrats took BY being more moderate?

      Before this year, I would have agreed with your Republican assessment. But you can't overlook that 72 million people signed on for more ultra-right wing courts and policies. More people went for that than went for Obama. Yes, Biden got more votes, but I can't sit here and claim this country is moving left when Trump got as many votes as he did. Honestly I've stayed pretty much out of these debates for a while now, but I don't share the happy feelings a lot seem to have after this election. I think I feel lower now than I did in 2016.
      Indeed. Fortunately, I don't share your feeling about 2016 vs now, but I was interested in a nice review of this election and what preceded it. Elissa Slotkin's political success in a very tough district in Michigan and her thoughts are outlined in good article done by Tim Alberta. If you haven't seen it already, I strongly suggest you take a look. https://www.politico.com/news/magazi...vil-war-436301
      "Who are white supremacists?" Proud Boys. "Well I tell the Proud Boys to stand back, and stand by"

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Hoek View Post
        That's supported by the fact that the GOP has tossed out so many conservative planks by the wayside in the name of naked populism. Meanwhile Democrats can't seem to win as easily as you'd think on policies that are supposedly approved of by 60+% of people in polls.
        And it wasn't even real populism. Trump basically branded himself as the white trash candidate, thereby capturing a plurality of the electorate in the form of non-college white voters and the small slivers of minority and college educated voters for whom "pull the ladder up behind you" had cache.

        Democrats have the far harder problem, even though their potential pool of supporters is so much larger. How do you create a collective tribal culture for a big tent Democratic electorate that fully motivates all the different factions in the tent without alienating any of them? Nobody believes the mythology of America as a true melting pot anymore and the idea of America as a mosaic, while more accurate, doesn't have the same power. That's the challenge Democrats have to grasp, though. How do you create a shared cultural/tribal identity based on tolerance, cooperation, mutual sacrifice, and equality that's powerful enough to motivate voters to go to the polls at the same rate the Republican fear porn industry full of conspiracy theories and disinformation turns out theirs?

        IMO, a lot of what the Bernie Bros did was a left wing version of fear porn, and while it has a certain power and the Bernie Bros definitely share a collective tribal identity and mythologies they blindly believe in, I found too much of it to be a distasteful replica of what goes on in the alt-right, and you can't actually run a civilization on fear porn alone. The last four years are proof of that.
        S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-Stammermeter 2019-2020: 29

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        • That 30-some percent has and always will be with us. The pro-authoritarian, anti-science, mostly racist group are beyond talking to or with. Full stop. But there are a few things that Biden can accomplish right out of the gate, to please the soft R’s, independents, and yes progressive D’s. Here are just a couple of concrete examples. Biden’s folks way smarter and informed than me and I’m sure they have concrete, specific “low hanging fruit” that can be tangible successes,

          —Use whatever sledgehammer necessary to lower the cost of insulin. Most everybody knows someone with diabetes and they are struggling mightily to pay for it.
          —Get going on some fixing bridges and infrastructure, particularly in exurban and rural areas. Putting construction crews and companies to work in places like Macomb county (MI) as an example benefits the local community as well as the small construction company. (Who are staunchly R/Trumpleaning)

          I have always and now believe the climate is an existential threat to the planet. And single payer is the way to go...but these big issue items need to wait for some small, tangible successes IMHO.
          "Who are white supremacists?" Proud Boys. "Well I tell the Proud Boys to stand back, and stand by"

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Puckhead View Post
            That 30-some percent has and always will be with us. The pro-authoritarian, anti-science, mostly racist group are beyond talking to or with. Full stop. But there are a few things that Biden can accomplish right out of the gate, to please the soft R’s, independents, and yes progressive D’s. Here are just a couple of concrete examples. Biden’s folks way smarter and informed than me and I’m sure they have concrete, specific “low hanging fruit” that can be tangible successes,

            —Use whatever sledgehammer necessary to lower the cost of insulin. Most everybody knows someone with diabetes and they are struggling mightily to pay for it.
            —Get going on some fixing bridges and infrastructure, particularly in exurban and rural areas. Putting construction crews and companies to work in places like Macomb county (MI) as an example benefits the local community as well as the small construction company. (Who are staunchly R/Trumpleaning)

            I have always and now believe the climate is an existential threat to the planet. And single payer is the way to go...but these big issue items need to wait for some small, tangible successes IMHO.
            I would add, depending on the outcome of the runoffs in Georgia, enact a new voting rights act to protect from the Conservative's attempts at voter suppression and disenfranchisement.
            Gudas Priest

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Puckhead View Post
              That 30-some percent has and always will be with us. The pro-authoritarian, anti-science, mostly racist group are beyond talking to or with. Full stop. But there are a few things that Biden can accomplish right out of the gate, to please the soft R’s, independents, and yes progressive D’s. Here are just a couple of concrete examples. Biden’s folks way smarter and informed than me and I’m sure they have concrete, specific “low hanging fruit” that can be tangible successes,

              —Use whatever sledgehammer necessary to lower the cost of insulin. Most everybody knows someone with diabetes and they are struggling mightily to pay for it.
              —Get going on some fixing bridges and infrastructure, particularly in exurban and rural areas. Putting construction crews and companies to work in places like Macomb county (MI) as an example benefits the local community as well as the small construction company. (Who are staunchly R/Trumpleaning)
              The low hanging fruit is getting the virus under control. It's #s 1-100 on the priority list. Full stop.
              But I don't disagree with you on the other points. Infrastructure is badly in need of addressing, whether that's at the federal or state level (through block grants, etc).

              Originally posted by Puckhead View Post
              I have always and now believe the climate is an existential threat to the planet. And single payer is the way to go...but these big issue items need to wait for some small, tangible successes IMHO.
              I'll admit that this is a completely pedantic point, but the climate is not an existential threat to the planet. The change in climate is an existential threat to our survival on the planet. We think. And Single Payer is a pipe dream until Democrats can get the messaging behind it under control (not holding my breath), and control of all three branches, since Republicans will never go for it.

              Bullshit Centrist and Ondrej Palat fan club member

              Comment


              • All good qualifiers, but note I was trying to highlight “tangible successes”.

                Unfortunately, I think we are beyond the point of no return on COVID. With positivity rates ranging from 15-40% all over the country, and upwards of 40% eschewing masks and afraid of being vaccinated, we are in for a very rough 12-24 months. Biden will attempt to do what he can, but this virus will do what it wants for the near term.
                "Who are white supremacists?" Proud Boys. "Well I tell the Proud Boys to stand back, and stand by"

                Comment


                • Originally posted by ChaseSpace View Post

                  I would add, depending on the outcome of the runoffs in Georgia, enact a new voting rights act to protect from the Conservative's attempts at voter suppression and disenfranchisement.
                  This is the easiest answer. If you expand the universe of voters to dilute the power held by the plurality demographic (non-college whites) such that the Republican Party has to start engaging in the same kind of coalitional politics that Democrats do, it changes everything.
                  S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-Stammermeter 2019-2020: 29

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Puckhead View Post
                    All good qualifiers, but note I was trying to highlight “tangible successes”.

                    Unfortunately, I think we are beyond the point of no return on COVID. With positivity rates ranging from 15-40% all over the country, and upwards of 40% eschewing masks and afraid of being vaccinated, we are in for a very rough 12-24 months. Biden will attempt to do what he can, but this virus will do what it wants for the near term.
                    Biden's got to hone in on the logistical rollout of the vaccine like a laser in his first year. If we can get the vaccine administered efficiently and conveniently to the populous (for free), people will give him the political credit. And, IMO, he can do all of that with emergency executive powers alone if he has to.

                    It's also, potentially, a great olive ranch to start rebuilding alliances with if we can help other countries with their logistical and technical problems with the vaccine. Trump was going to try to control the vaccine and sell it off at a profit to other countries. Biden could turn the vaccine into a huge humanitarian coup for the United States and start washing the bad taste out of a lot of people's mouths about the Trump years quickly.
                    S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-Stammermeter 2019-2020: 29

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                    • With McConnell continue to pack the courts after Trump's lost with Conservative ideologues what kind of backlash would there be if a Democratic Senate impeached every judge that was rated as "Not Qualified" by the Bar Association?
                      Gudas Priest

                      Comment


                      • They'd have to have a supermajority in the Senate to impeach. It'd be a far easier thing for Democrats to reach a tenable majority of, say, 53 seats, abolish the filibuster, and then:

                        - Expand the number of judges on the courts at all levels to dilute the effect of McConnell's judges.

                        - And/or place term limits on judicial seats.
                        S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-Stammermeter 2019-2020: 29

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                        • Oh,no. Junior has COVID. Suffer asshole.
                          I’m a senior. As are Donnie, Puckhead, and JB.

                          Who knew?

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                          • If only 50% of the population tested themselves in this way every 4 days, we can achieve vaccine-like “herd effects” (which is when onward transmission of the virus across the population cannot sustain itself—like taking fuel from a fire—and the outbreak collapses)
                            Great! So why can't we do this?

                            The antigen test technology exists and some companies overseas have already produced exactly what would work for this program. However, in the U.S., the FDA hasn’t figured out a way to authorize the at-home rapid antigen tests because the FDA is used to regulating medical devices, not public health screening tools.
                            Oh... Okay.
                            We have a long road ahead before a vaccine is safe, effective and widely available. Here's how we can stop the spread of COVID-19 now.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Hoek View Post

                              Great! So why can't we do this?



                              Oh... Okay.
                              Lets face it...Trump and Pence have been checked out since the summer. And then they throw up their hands, yell uncle, and bring Asssless in. FDA and CDC thinking outside the box would have happened had Biden and Klain been in charge. Supreme and utter incompetence on the part of "don't test/increase the numbers" Trump.
                              "Who are white supremacists?" Proud Boys. "Well I tell the Proud Boys to stand back, and stand by"

                              Comment


                              • CDC has been sidelined since early in the pandemic. Insane but true.
                                S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-Stammermeter 2019-2020: 29

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