News of the Day III

[Bolthed]

Because he wasn't? Educate yourself on the difference between being a Nazi and a German soldier during WWII




He didn't wear the swastika, he wore the German iron cross. On that note, immigrants are being put in cages. You're an American and pay your taxes, so by you're logic you are culpable I guess. I don't think you are.

Rommel sacrificed his life to end the Hitler regime, what have you done lately to stop the caging immigrants? Are you in a position to cast judgement?

Looks like some of you have received the extent of your history education from Indiana Jones movies

FUCK. YOU.

85% of my family was murdered by Nazis. I am named after a great uncle who was gassed. So let’s talk about who’s invested in this conversation. I don’t give a fuck about splitting hairs between who was a true believer and who was complicit. I have firsthand knowledge of what German soldiers and citizens did to members of my family, my people, and others. You have what, books, pictures, stories? I also know my history about the Weimar Republic and the rise of Nazism. And I’ve got family stories about why they didn’t leave sooner (they literally could not believe their neighbors and countrymen could possibly turn on them ... and sometimes I feel echoes of that in my country today). There is so goddamn much you seem to lack in your significant yet clinical, academic knowledge of these types of things. The arrogance and self-righteous bile you’ve displayed in this and other conversations turns my stomach.

You have no idea who you're labeling and generalizing and making judgy assumptions about. My wife and I have donated significantly to RAICES. But this isn’t a dick measuring contest, oh seeker of truth. The moment I learned about concentration camps in my country I took action. But that’s none of your fucking business, and maybe you can see why it’s offensive to ask what someone has done lately.

Your arguments are frequently offensive. Offensive. I feel the need to say that again because you appear to be either unaware of or indifferent to how you represent yourself. I was extremely disappointed to read your lengthy defenses of southern and confederate “tradition” both recently and when it first came up (you were a lot more insensitive then as I recall). And now I know why it got under my skin and stayed there. It was offensive. If we had/have any African-Americans on this board I can imagine they might feel similarly to the way I do right now.

And guess what? I am also a military history buff. I’ve studied the civil war, WWI and WW2, been to battlefields. I also grew up idolizing Robert E. Lee because his biography was the first book I remember loving when I would sit on the floor at the library as a child. When I was in college I read Lee’s Lieutenants and researched Hannibal. You and I are probably more alike than either would care to admit. But I can see one clear-as-all-fuck difference — I left my idolatry in my childhood and I sure as hell have enough basic empathy and sympathy for other people’s perspectives to not say totally offensive shit because I want to win a stupid semantic argument, like I don’t know ... Did Erwin Rommel enjoy wearing the swastika while being responsible for killing thousands who were fighting fascism and the Nazi party that he fucking supported whether he was technically in the goddamn party or not?

Educate myself? Maybe you should reevaluate the bubble in which you live or the Internet anonymity that might allow you to think it’s harmless to post these vehement, venomous defenses of the indefensible. This is the same issue that appears to have been absent in your first foray into defending Confederate statues — can you see how insensitive it is to hold this kind of shit up in certain people’s faces? Your recent defense of Confederate statues seems to indicate that you have gained some understanding of the nuances of what these objects mean to people who are unlike yourself, how in other people’s eyes they are indeed a symbol and a celebration of something horrific. Please do consider continuing on this particular path of enlightenment.

[pete]

The people with the guns are convinced that the vast majority of Americans support him. Everyone they talk to, read, watch on TV are all Trump supporters.

And Trump himself is mentally ill.

The people with tanks and drones are trained and sworn to uphold the Constitution. Yes, the DOD issued a press release they would not intervene in an election dispute. Yes, it's a bad precedent for the civilian controlled military to have to intervene in a free election. But, it's curtains for American democracy, in particular, and Western democracy in general if Trump stays in power and all the grown ups in this country and around the world know it. Extraordinary times will yield extraordinary measures.

And, like I said, nothing will scare the usually very sober and very measured institutionalists in our government into impaneling a Trump Corruption Commission faster than that. After Lafayette Square I'm in full democracy preservation mode, and that would be like Lafayette Square on steroids.

[Donnie D]

“America has always turned a blind eye to what we done to our own. We look out to the world and judge. We hear about the concentration camps but these camps went on for two hundred years right here in America.” The Butler

Having just returned from Europe where I saw the concentration camp at Dachau, I found this one of the most profound movie quotes of all time.

Tear them down. NOW.

[Donnie D]

The people with tanks and drones are trained and sworn to uphold the Constitution. Yes, the DOD issued a press release they would not intervene in an election dispute. Yes, it's a bad precedent for the civilian controlled military to have to intervene in a free election. But, it's curtains for American democracy, in particular, and Western democracy in general if Trump stays in power and all the grown ups in this country and around the world know it. Extraordinary times will yield extraordinary measures.

And, like I said, nothing will scare the usually very sober and very measured institutionalists in our government into impaneling a Trump Corruption Commission faster than that. After Lafayette Square I'm in full democracy preservation mode, and that would be like Lafayette Square on steroids.

You have much more confidence about our military than I do.

If we get that far, Trump is going to say that this was a rigged election and that the socialists stole the election. It is up to the military to preserve democracy by keeping him in office.

They could very well see their role as preserving the constitution by keeping Trump.

[pete]

You have much more confidence about our military than I do.

There's a reason why everything that came out about Russian bounties on troops and Trump's general low regard for the military came out when it came out (and will keep coming out). The pump is being primed. Career military and intelligence know the direction this is going and they're laying the groundwork, IMO.

[Bolthed]

That’s why I think Woodward’s book just came out now — maximum damage (though I personally disagree with not releasing the audio back when it could have saved lives).

[RSchmitz]

FUCK. YOU.

85% of my family was murdered by Nazis. I am named after a great uncle who was gassed. So let’s talk about who’s invested in this conversation. I don’t give a fuck about splitting hairs between who was a true believer and who was complicit. I have firsthand knowledge of what German soldiers and citizens did to members of my family, my people, and others. You have what, books, pictures, stories? I also know my history about the Weimar Republic and the rise of Nazism. And I’ve got family stories about why they didn’t leave sooner (they literally could not believe their neighbors and countrymen could possibly turn on them ... and sometimes I feel echoes of that in my country today). There is so goddamn much you seem to lack in your significant yet clinical, academic knowledge of these types of things. The arrogance and self-righteous bile you’ve displayed in this and other conversations turns my stomach.

You have no idea who you're labeling and generalizing and making judgy assumptions about. My wife and I have donated significantly to RAICES. But this isn’t a dick measuring contest, oh seeker of truth. The moment I learned about concentration camps in my country I took action. But that’s none of your fucking business, and maybe you can see why it’s offensive to ask what someone has done lately.

Your arguments are frequently offensive. Offensive. I feel the need to say that again because you appear to be either unaware of or indifferent to how you represent yourself. I was extremely disappointed to read your lengthy defenses of southern and confederate “tradition” both recently and when it first came up (you were a lot more insensitive then as I recall). And now I know why it got under my skin and stayed there. It was offensive. If we had/have any African-Americans on this board I can imagine they might feel similarly to the way I do right now.

And guess what? I am also a military history buff. I’ve studied the civil war, WWI and WW2, been to battlefields. I also grew up idolizing Robert E. Lee because his biography was the first book I remember loving when I would sit on the floor at the library as a child. When I was in college I read Lee’s Lieutenants and researched Hannibal. You and I are probably more alike than either would care to admit. But I can see one clear-as-all-fuck difference — I left my idolatry in my childhood and I sure as hell have enough basic empathy and sympathy for other people’s perspectives to not say totally offensive shit because I want to win a stupid semantic argument, like I don’t know ... Did Erwin Rommel enjoy wearing the swastika while being responsible for killing thousands who were fighting fascism and the Nazi party that he fucking supported whether he was technically in the goddamn party or not?

Educate myself? Maybe you should reevaluate the bubble in which you live or the Internet anonymity that might allow you to think it’s harmless to post these vehement, venomous defenses of the indefensible. This is the same issue that appears to have been absent in your first foray into defending Confederate statues — can you see how insensitive it is to hold this kind of shit up in certain people’s faces? Your recent defense of Confederate statues seems to indicate that you have gained some understanding of the nuances of what these objects mean to people who are unlike yourself, how in other people’s eyes they are indeed a symbol and a celebration of something horrific. Please do consider continuing on this particular path of enlightenment.

I'm genuinely sorry that 85% of your family died to that shit, horrible. The eugenics and scientific racism that Nazism spread and acted on sucks. I'm not being insensitive to that though. Nothing I said was offensive, historically analyzing Rommel from 75 years ago is not offensive, saying that I see historical value in confederate statues is not offensive, I'm not sorry that you felt offended.

Your little bit about internet anonymity just says that you believe that I should feel physically threatened and intimidated, for basically regurgitating information that you might find if you were to turn on the History Channel and listen to a historian or read a biography.

So fuck you too buddy

BTW, how might African Americans feel about my views on confederate statues? In my class, they seemed to be okay with me saying that I see historical value in them and don't like seeing them torn down but understand why people want them removed.

[the_narrow_way]

That’s why I think Woodward’s book just came out now — maximum damage (though I personally disagree with not releasing the audio back when it could have saved lives).

I also think that was behind Woodward's determination to hold on to the audio until now. I think he understands that no matter what the terrible story is, especially with Trump, that it's impact rapidly deteriorates over time. He wants to pile it on right before election time to ensure it has the greatest practical effect.

[Donnie D]

In my class, they seemed to be okay with me saying that I see historical value in them and don't like seeing them torn down but understand why people want them removed.

You are the authority figure. They are probably afraid to disagree with you. It’s not unlike a secretary putting up with sexual harassment.

If you are expressing the same insensitivity in your class, you just might lose your job.

[RSchmitz]

You are the authority figure. They are probably afraid to disagree with you. It’s not unlike a secretary putting up with sexual harassment.

If you are expressing the same insensitivity in your class, you just might lose your job.

Yeah my students are terrified of me.

This was an AP American history writing prompt on propaganda in art and literature, students shared opposing view points on how to treat propaganda and if it had historical value or should be taken down. Confederate statues was a hot button topic. As the teacher, I took a neutral viewpoint, how incredibly insensitive of me to do my fucking job. Thankfully I am on the internet, and you dolts can't report me because I didn't censor content that might appear on these kids college board exams.

[Bolthed]

“I’m not being insensitive.”

“Nothing I sad was offensive.”

“I'm not sorry that you felt offended.”

I wonder if you can hear yourself. Do you ever put yourself in the shoes of others when you are running roughshod over them?

And asking you to reconsider if Internet anonymity contributes to the way you post this shit is in no way ominous or threatening. If you felt that way, I’m genuinely sorry but also confused and I’d ask you to read it again (maybe a couple of times), because I think you would benefit from some self-reflection and some deeper understanding of why you keep ignoring what some of us keep telling you is insensitive and offensive. But you do you.

[Bolthed]

Students don’t have to be terrified of their teacher to “be okay” with whatever nonsense the teacher is suggesting. Your posts here, especially these responses to people calling you out, show a deep inability or disregard for self-reflection. You really can’t see how children are influenced by the authority of their teachers? That’s surprising and a bit tragic.

The common theme I wish you could see in your own responses in almost all of your debates with everyone here can be summed up in one word — dismissive. As a character trait in a teacher, that’s just sadly unfortunate.

[RSchmitz]

“I’m not being insensitive.”

“Nothing I sad was offensive.”

“I'm not sorry that you felt offended.”

I wonder if you can hear yourself. Do you ever put yourself in the shoes of others when you are running roughshod over them?

And asking you to reconsider if Internet anonymity contributes to the way you post this shit is in no way ominous or threatening. If you felt that way, I’m genuinely sorry but also confused and I’d ask you to read it again (maybe a couple of times), because I think you would benefit from some self-reflection and some deeper understanding of why you keep ignoring what some of us keep telling you is insensitive and offensive. But you do you.

Your feelings are real and valid, and I am not telling you how you should feel, but I also can only make an honest effort to be mindful of them and cannot be responsible for them in all cases without prior knowledge. For events that happened 4 generations ago or more, I think it is fair and reasonable to talk about as a matter of fact. However if I am wrong, and if I am being hurtful, absolutely I will apologize and move on. I would have steered clear if I knew that it was a sensitive topic for you and you had said it was from the start. Having said that, being offended is not a valid argument to tell someone that they are wrong. If you don't want to talk about Nazism, cool with me, lets move on, but you can't also use that to validate your argument. Agreed?

So sincerely, since you want me to reflect, what am I saying that is offensive? Be clear and concise, because I guess I just don't see it. The closest thing that I have said that I would consider insensitive is questioning what you are doing to help the border crisis, which I also immediately resolved you of. Sorry if I offended you on that point, I was trying to draw relevance to what we had been talking about but it wasn't necessary.

[RSchmitz]

Students don’t have to be terrified of their teacher to “be okay” with whatever nonsense the teacher is suggesting. Your posts here, especially these responses to people calling you out, show a deep inability or disregard for self-reflection. You really can’t see how children are influenced by the authority of their teachers? That’s surprising and a bit tragic.

The common theme I wish you could see in your own responses in almost all of your debates with everyone here can be summed up in one word — dismissive. As a character trait in a teacher, that’s just sadly unfortunate.

Injecting differing viewpoints into students lives is part of the job, you're acting as if you've never had to facilitate an argument before. I'm keenly aware of my responsibility as a teacher and how I influence them, I don't need approval from anyone here to know what I am doing is right.

[pete]

I also think that was behind Woodward's determination to hold on to the audio until now. I think he understands that no matter what the terrible story is, especially with Trump, that it's impact rapidly deteriorates over time. He wants to pile it on right before election time to ensure it has the greatest practical effect.

He was trying to sell books. There's no altruistic motive behind it. Base commerce.