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  • Originally posted by Flycoon View Post
    FBI has stats that show those applying for LEO positions test much higher in the sociopath/psychopath end on mental evaluations. Those are rejected; unless they are not. How many are combat veterans who may not be a good fit due to PTSD or other military experience?

    I would like to see policing less armed but with the general population armed as they are I just don’t know how feasible that is. The tanks and assault vehicles that were put out of service under the last admin but brought back in Trumps America need to go.

    How do you explain/justify the police in Kenosha welcoming armed vigilantes?

    Seems caravans from south of the border are dangerous but caravans of armed right wingers driving into Portland are patriots.

    Fucked up.
    The message from George Floyd, as far as I am concerned has been highjacked. We need a better way of tracking abusive officers and those that are fired and/or disqualified by an agency.

    As far as the vehicles. I have no problem with those as many agencies use them to get the wounded out of an area where any other means will not work.

    there is never a place for vigilantes, never ever.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by WaiverWire View Post
      You have an officer yelling he has a knife. You had 1 officer that made one last attempt to pull him from the car by his shirt. When that failed he shot.
      It was a weak attempt to pull him from the vehicle and it still doesn't negate the fact that he put the children in the vehicle in greater danger by firing into it 7 times than if he had potentially let him drive away.

      Better yet, why did he draw down on him instead of pulling his taser? If we can send soldiers to a hostile country and they can practice better trigger discipline in an active warzone then I have to wonder why conservatives are happy to let training for officers in their own backyard get to this lax state where you have officers acting like they're more scared then the people they're supposed to be apprehending.

      The 30 foot rule was null and void in this situation as the officers had their guns drawn on him before anyone even mentioned there was a knife. Which that itself is in dispute as the Wisconsin DOJ hasn't agreed with the Union's version of events.
      Gudas Priest

      Comment


      • Originally posted by WaiverWire View Post
        The message from George Floyd, as far as I am concerned has been highjacked. We need a better way of tracking abusive officers and those that are fired and/or disqualified by an agency.

        As far as the vehicles. I have no problem with those as many agencies use them to get the wounded out of an area where any other means will not work.

        there is never a place for vigilantes, never ever.
        Thank your local police union for that.
        Gudas Priest

        Comment


        • WW, we are going to have to wait for the Wisconsin DOJ report. The part that I find interesting is how quickly this occurred. It was 3 minutes and 5 seconds between the time the first officer arrived and the call to dispatch that shots were fired. In that time suspect reportedly placed one officer in a head lock, wrestled on the ground with an officer and was tased.

          But, I’m glad you are back, because I’d honestly like to hear your perspective on the following questions that I have about the incident.

          According to the union, he placed one of the officers in a head lock and had a knife in his other hand. Wouldn’t that have been the time to shoot?

          According to reports, he wrestled with the officers on the ground. If he had a knife wasn’t that have been the time to shoot?

          If he had a knife would you grab him and attempt to pull a guy with a knife Out of a car towards you?

          If he didn’t have a knife and was reaching for it as some report, was the officer in eminent danger?

          Shouldn’t you have waited for the additional 3 units that were dispatched to the scene to arrive before the confrontation in the car? Couldn’t you have rendered the car undrivable by flattening the tires?

          Why would police allow armed vigilantes on the streets in violation of curfew? Not only allow them, but thank them for their service?

          Why would you allow an armed 17 year old out on the streets in violation of state law Requiring that you be 18 to possess a firearm and in violation of curfew?

          Why hasn’t the mother been arrested as an accessory to murder if she drove her little boy to Kenosha in violation of curfew and he was in possession of an illegal weapon?

          If you were going to allow armed vigilantes on the street after curfew, Why would would you tear gas peaceful Protesters singing in a park?

          Why would you keep this guy as police chief when the department was caught planting evidence on a homicide suspect a few years earlier, a police office reported it and it was covered up by the police department, including the chief? (This Chief was the deputy chief at the time.)

          I’m not a law enforcement expert, but this department stinks to high heaven.
          Last edited by Donnie D; 09-01-2020, 03:37 PM.
          “Every man who has stepped foot on the moon launched from the Kennedy Space Center, in Florida. Yet, Florida has failed to figure out how to run an election properly — a task simpler than rocket science.”

          Comment


          • Thanks DonnieD. Great questions. We do not know when they first saw the knife or was it when the officer yelled knife. If it was the later that is when he was running for the car.

            We do not know for certain when the knife was seen. If it was when the officer yelled knife, then the knife would had been dropped on the floorboard when he was shot.

            So you flatten a tire while he is grabbing a child?

            ChaseSpace..... I hate unions. Problem is that if the average worker, a teacher and other government employees can have one why not law enforcement.

            HCSO had one. I fought it tooth and nail. After 3 years the union was out as the deputies felt they could not do anything for them that state law was already protecting us.

            He was tased....twice! Did both probes deploy and make contact, I do not know the answer to that. But I will say that certain drugs can block the tasers current.

            And you say that the officer made a half ass attempt in pulling him from the car....what was he to do? Bear hug him and pull him back possibly knowing he had a knife thus making his weapon of last resort useless?
            Last edited by WaiverWire; 09-01-2020, 04:10 PM.

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            • WW what about the vigilante questions?
              “Every man who has stepped foot on the moon launched from the Kennedy Space Center, in Florida. Yet, Florida has failed to figure out how to run an election properly — a task simpler than rocket science.”

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Donnie D View Post
                WW what about the vigilante questions?
                The former top domestic terrorism person at HHS was on with Nicole Wallace today. Neuman said that the no question /the #1 threat of domestic terrorism is, hands down, white supremacists/alt right militias.
                "Who are white supremacists?" Proud Boys. "Well I tell the Proud Boys to stand back, and stand by"

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Donnie D View Post
                  WW what about the vigilante questions?
                  Sorry but I thought I had answered that one. Vigilantes have no business roaming our streets. Why didn't the police stop them? Maybe they were allowed to roam as the mayor had told the police to remains hands off not knowing they were out there.

                  What happened is a clear message what can happen when our leaders do not take a clear stance and enforce the laws equally.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by WaiverWire View Post
                    Sorry but I thought I had answered that one. Vigilantes have no business roaming our streets. Why didn't the police stop them? Maybe they were allowed to roam as the mayor had told the police to remains hands off not knowing they were out there.

                    What happened is a clear message what can happen when our leaders do not take a clear stance and enforce the laws equally.
                    I’ve said the chief needs to be fired. Not because of the initial shooting, but because of the culture of his department. The chief allowed vigilantes to roam the street, had an underage kid out there that his cops were talking to and tear gassing the protesters. Not to mention the planting of evidence and the coverup.

                    I grew up there, the Kenosha PD is bad news.
                    “Every man who has stepped foot on the moon launched from the Kennedy Space Center, in Florida. Yet, Florida has failed to figure out how to run an election properly — a task simpler than rocket science.”

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by WaiverWire View Post
                      I know this will not go over well with many here, and I am not saying the officer was in the right or wrong. Many will be saying what the hell are you doing back.

                      What I am going to say is that officers also have to take into account future possible actions.

                      The audio has an officer yelling he has a knife before Blake in the doorway of the vehicle. He was then shot and one would think that is how the knife ended up on the floorboard.

                      Clearly Blake was attempting to get away from the officers. The officer has to be thinking that he can not allow Blake the opportunity to get into the car and speed off. He has to be thinking will Blake harm others with the vehicle. Will the vehicle crash trying to get away. We still do not know if the officers knew that there were children in the car. If they did know it is their duty to protect those children from being injurie by a knife or a reckless driver.

                      So with that in mind just what do you think the outrage would be if Blake was able to drive off at a high speed, with children in the car, and an accident happened?
                      So now we're living in the movie The Minority Report and police are allowed to shoot a man seven times in the back for a crime he may or may not commit in the future? You're basically just handing police carte blanche to execute whoever they want at that point, because that's damned thin justification for deadly force. "He might've gotten in the car or run somebody over." Or, equally as plausible, he might've just gotten in the car and just driven away to a family member or friend's house safely. The standard needs to be a helluva lot higher to take a man's life or paralyze him from the waist down for the rest of his days.
                      S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-Stammermeter 2019-2020: 29

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                      • Thanks for coming back and reinforcing how police think, WW. You forgot to mention how frequently police use de-escalation techniques when they’re dealing with white people in FAR more dangerous circumstances. Do they shoot within 3 minutes? When it’s a white guy getting in his car, do you have the same sincere concern that he’s going to harm his own goddamn children? How many white guys have you shot because they MIGHT do harm with their vehicle? Seems that description would apply to millions of fine people.

                        It’s OK. It’s understandable when you consider the way police are trained, how the force makes everyone conform to support their fraternal order, the number of overtly white supremacist cops and, oh yeah ... can’t forget the history of police dating back to slave patrols, and how the police have been a tool for well-heeled white folk since forever, and obviously an effective tool for oppressing blacks.

                        Yup. Thanks for coming back to clarify all of this. I hope you didn’t throw your back out stretching so far for the rationalization of shooting a man 7 times in his back.
                        Last edited by Bolthed; 09-01-2020, 08:20 PM.
                        “Could I had posted cite a site?” — WWW dot Trump makes you dumb dot RU

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by WaiverWire View Post
                          We do not know when they first saw the knife or was it when the officer yelled knife. If it was the later that is when he was running for the car.
                          ? Obviously if there actually was a knife on Blake directly it was seen sometime before or at the moment the one cop called out to 'drop the knife'. And Blake was not 'running' for the car.

                          Comment


                          • Double police salary, and then fire and take away their pension if they don’t wait for confirmation of an imminent attack before discharging their weapon. Don’t need to go to trial and try officers for homicide in order to make a meaningful decision. “Was he pointing a gun directly at you? No? Thank you for your service and adios.”

                            We can complain all day about racist/trigger happy cops, but shit isn’t going to change if you’re hiring the same under qualified work force with baggage and who can’t handle threatening encounters while asking them to make split second decisions. And then giving them the breadth of the Atlantic in leniency to make the wrong decision to compensate for poor hiring standards. That’s a set up for failure.


                            There should be some bonus incentives for military and ex MP’s to join. Every ex-military friend of mine has said that the rules of engagement and when to fire are drilled into your head and so much tougher for them, seems like a great place to try and pull recruits from.
                            If no government system will guarantee a utopia, then our best choice is to look for the least exploitive one

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by RSchmitz View Post
                              There should be some bonus incentives for military and ex MP’s to join. Every ex-military friend of mine has said that the rules of engagement and when to fire are drilled into your head and so much tougher for them, seems like a great place to try and pull recruits from.
                              That would be a great idea if police departments wanted to actual hire people who have qualifications. They actively turn down people who may be over qualified for the job but actually want it because they don't want the hassle of training them only for them to possibly leave in a few years for a better job.

                              They'd rather hire potentially worse cops than potentially good ones because the worse ones won't leave before they collect their retirement. Which just means you have worse cops training the next wave of cops to be just as terrible as they are.
                              Gudas Priest

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by ChaseSpace View Post
                                That would be a great idea if police departments wanted to actual hire people who have qualifications. They actively turn down people who may be over qualified for the job but actually want it because they don't want the hassle of training them only for them to possibly leave in a few years for a better job.

                                They'd rather hire potentially worse cops than potentially good ones because the worse ones won't leave before they collect their retirement. Which just means you have worse cops training the next wave of cops to be just as terrible as they are.
                                Sounds like that's where we need to focus our attention. If good cops are leaving, we should figure out why and fix that. If it's a decision making policy, vote in better decision makers. If it's a money issue, throw money at it.
                                If no government system will guarantee a utopia, then our best choice is to look for the least exploitive one

                                Comment

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