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  • This idea it is all Reid is ridiculous. He was playing the political game every bit as much as McConnell and Republicans, and they are both at fault for this do-nothing. While Reid (wrongly) sat on some bills, Republicans threatened filibusters on others which would then just waste time. Not to mention they used them to delay or completely block something like 400 bills. As all the experts have said, there is equal blame to go for all parties. As for McConnell saying this, I'm sure he will. He has the House as well.

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    • That is just lip service to appear like something is going to be accomplished.
      If no government system will guarantee a utopia, then our best choice is to look for the least exploitive one

      Comment


      • Originally posted by BurnTHalO View Post
        This idea it is all Reid is ridiculous. He was playing the political game every bit as much as McConnell and Republicans, and they are both at fault for this do-nothing. While Reid (wrongly) sat on some bills, Republicans threatened filibusters on others which would then just waste time. Not to mention they used them to delay or completely block something like 400 bills. As all the experts have said, there is equal blame to go for all parties. As for McConnell saying this, I'm sure he will. He has the House as well.
        Never placed all the blame on Reid, but he has to stand up and take his fair share. Instead he has his Chief of Staff blame the President.

        Fact is over 350 bills were either stalled at Reid's office or by a committee chair. 55 bills authored by democrats in the House also found this fate.

        And please explain how one can filibuster when a bill doesn't even have a chance to come out of committee? It takes 60 votes to block a filibuster. The democrats only needed a few from the other side but never tried to get them.

        So what should have happened is you let them filibuster and then blame the party for their action as to why things do not get done.

        The above is what McConnell should do and I think he will.

        But I also think that if they can try to pass bills with common ground, the others will bring the parties to the table and more will get done.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by WaiverWire View Post
          Never placed all the blame on Reid, but he has to stand up and take his fair share. Instead he has his Chief of Staff blame the President.

          Fact is over 350 bills were either stalled at Reid's office or by a committee chair. 55 bills authored by democrats in the House also found this fate.

          And please explain how one can filibuster when a bill doesn't even have a chance to come out of committee? It takes 60 votes to block a filibuster. The democrats only needed a few from the other side but never tried to get them.

          So what should have happened is you let them filibuster and then blame the party for their action as to why things do not get done.

          The above is what McConnell should do and I think he will.

          But I also think that if they can try to pass bills with common ground, the others will bring the parties to the table and more will get done.
          Because they don't try something when they don't have the 60 votes. If it's going to be filibustered by the Republicans, the thought is why bring it up and waste time. I agree, they should have let the filibusters happen, it was (once again, common theme here) a stupid move by the democrats, and I thought it was a horrible miscalculation by Reid that really cost them a lot. However, filibustering EVERYTHING that does go to floor is also obsurd, and I wish someone would hold them accountable for that as well.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by BurnTHalO View Post
            Because they don't try something when they don't have the 60 votes. If it's going to be filibustered by the Republicans, the thought is why bring it up and waste time. I agree, they should have let the filibusters happen, it was (once again, common theme here) a stupid move by the democrats, and I thought it was a horrible miscalculation by Reid that really cost them a lot. However, filibustering EVERYTHING that does go to floor is also obsurd, and I wish someone would hold them accountable for that as well.
            But you are assuming, like Harry, that would happen. All I am saying maybe it would not.

            But then Harry never even tried to bring stuff to the floor where they had common ground. He did not want a bill to be amended and possible look better than it started out as. But guess what? That is legislating.

            The last thing he brought to the floor was immigration. I commend him for that. But why not energy? Why not tax reform?

            Immigration failed in the House out of distrust. They did not think the President would secure the border. So If I had been Reid I would had put forth a bill dealing with border security and then follow up with the rest. But he did not trust the republicans to move forward after the border bill was past.

            I believe whoever gets the immigration bill through has the best chance of winning in 2016.

            I think you have to go to the President and give him his trade bill, something Reid would not do. Then you have to tell him that if he agrees to allow a separate borders bill the rest of the bill will follow as soon as the borders bill is signed.

            If they can do that, they can pass many things the last two years.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Donnie D
              I am all for making it easier for people to register to vote as well as making it easier to vote, but voter suppression and days off of work had NOTHING to do with why Scott was re-elected.
              Making it a holiday has more to do with promoting a culture where it's impressed on people that voting is important.

              If voter suppression is no big deal, why is one group working so hard at it?

              As a few have said, it does need to be noted that the Dems who "ran away" from Obama lost, most badly. Think that turned off young folks who worked hard to get him elected? You bet it did.

              Comment


              • What turns off young folks who worked hard to get Obama elected is how Obama governed. Hope and Change was essentially a lie, beyond getting the ACA passed.

                The most nauseating thing was hearing the Pundits talk about how the left is going to have to move to meet the right due to this midterm and ditch their "far left" agenda.

                Those pundits should be beaten. I challenge any of them to name a truly progressive piece of policy that is part of the DNC platform.
                To those who do not know that the world is on fire, I have nothing to say. - Bertolt Brecht

                Comment


                • Originally posted by ZeykShade View Post
                  The most nauseating thing was hearing the Pundits talk about how the left is going to have to move to meet the right due to this midterm and ditch their "far left" agenda.
                  They wouldn't know a far left agenda if one jumped up & bit them.

                  Hm, so very interesting! What's nice is they're comparing to 2010, not 2012. http://www.thenation.com/blog/188697...-2014-election

                  In the North Carolina senate race, Republican Thom Tillis, who as speaker of the North Carolina General Assembly oversaw the state’s new voting law, defeated Democrat Kay Hagan by 50,000 votes. Nearly five times as many voters in 2010 used the voting reforms eliminated by the North Carolina GOP—200,000 voted during the now-eliminated first week of early voting, 20,000 used same-day registration and 7,000 cast out-of-precinct ballots.

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                  • Originally posted by Donnie D
                    And every bill of any substance has not received the 60 votes necessary for closure. The republicans used this tactic and I expect that the democrats will too.
                    I certainly hope so.

                    The GOP pulled that shit with the sincere belief that Dems will work with them even though they have shit on everything for 6 years.

                    Playing hardball by their rules is long overdue.
                    I’m a senior. As are Donnie, Puckhead, and JB.

                    Who knew?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Donnie D
                      Obama ran away from his own record. He has a good record, but I really believe Obama has checked out. I thought he lost his enthusiasm for the job the 3rd year in and ran only because he didn't want to be seen as a quitter. But he has been AWOL as a president and a leader for the past 2 years.
                      I agree. A meme on one of the talk shows on Sirius Progressive is Obama does not want to be perceived as "angry black man" and frighten older white voters.

                      The persona he has chosen is much more poisonous.
                      I’m a senior. As are Donnie, Puckhead, and JB.

                      Who knew?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by WaiverWire View Post

                        Believe it or not I always wanted him to succeed. There are many reasons why we should have all wanted him to succeed.
                        Very disingenuous WW. He and his policies and legislative are one in the same. If you don't want his policies to succeed, you don't want him to succeed.

                        Unless succeed means he would have jumped parties.
                        I’m a senior. As are Donnie, Puckhead, and JB.

                        Who knew?

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Flycoon View Post
                          Very disingenuous WW. He and his policies and legislative are one in the same. If you don't want his policies to succeed, you don't want him to succeed.

                          Unless succeed means he would have jumped parties.
                          Not so. If you look at the crowds he drew after he won the first time many felt he was the real deal and could bring the country together. I never voted for him and even after seeing the 60 Minutes piece I was willing to give him his chance. Like many, I have seen enough. My God his ratings are awful.

                          I think he is an ego maniac. Just look what could had been if he had not said his policies were on the line in this election. Many democrats wanted nothing to do with him and did not want him on their campaign trail. They were all trying to distance themselves from him and then he says a dumb thing like that. The races were close and many polls had the dems pulling it out. I really think that the statement he made, and repeated several time, doomed the races.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by WaiverWire View Post
                            Not so. If you look at the crowds he drew after he won the first time many felt he was the real deal and could bring the country together. I never voted for him and even after seeing the 60 Minutes piece I was willing to give him his chance. Like many, I have seen enough. My God his ratings are awful.

                            I think he is an ego maniac. Just look what could had been if he had not said his policies were on the line in this election. Many democrats wanted nothing to do with him and did not want him on their campaign trail. They were all trying to distance themselves from him and then he says a dumb thing like that. The races were close and many polls had the dems pulling it out. I really think that the statement he made, and repeated several time, doomed the races.
                            Election fraud, not voter fraud, was a big problem. Never reported by big media but recapped well at Bradblog.com.

                            If 40% of voters were 60 or over this is what you get. The terrified goobers. ISIS, Ebola, Obama's secret negro militia, their shadows.....pitiful. Thinking there should be a maximum age for voting.
                            I’m a senior. As are Donnie, Puckhead, and JB.

                            Who knew?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Flycoon View Post
                              Election fraud, not voter fraud, was a big problem. Never reported by big media but recapped well at Bradblog.com.

                              If 40% of voters were 60 or over this is what you get. The terrified goobers. ISIS, Ebola, Obama's secret negro militia, their shadows.....pitiful. Thinking there should be a maximum age for voting.
                              So what you are saying is that only those over 60 really care about exercising their right because when you look at that figure I can not understand for the life of me why those that vote in the presidential elections don't make the effort to get out and vote in the mid-terms. It just makes no sense.

                              Yeah, I am one of those old guys. But when my friend and I were young we were all looking to go to a war that we did not believe in. Then one day they gave use the right to vote at 18. I never looked back and I have never missed an election since that date. Maybe it is that those after my generation never had a feeling that their vote meant something. Then Obama came along with promise. And soon we learn that this government is so big that no matter who is in control, it really doesn't matter.

                              Comment


                              • Allow me to point out the flaws in your thinking Waiver: midterm elections are base elections. The party that wins midterm elections is the one that turns their voters out better. The pool of voters in 2014 shrunk from about 2/3 the possible electorate in 2012 to 1/3 of the electorate, and it was proportionally far more Caucasian (75%) than it was in 2012.

                                The Democrats did not lose the midterms badly because they failed to appeal to the mythical centrist voter (who doesn't show up in midterm elections, anyway). They lost because they failed to appeal to their own base, which occurred partly because Obama refused to lead on a handful of issues that would've catered to his base voters. For instance, had he been half the "egomaniac" that Waiver makes him out to be (and when a Republican calls Obama "arrogant" or "egotistical," please know that's code for "uppity," which they would feel regardless of what Obama's policies were, which is why he was dumb to ever try to cater to the mythical persuadable Republican, which doesn't exist), Obama could've forced immigration reform by Executive Order. I suspect he chose not to because Democrats played small ball thinking that would cost them Pryor's seat in Arkansas and Landrieu's seat in Louisiana. Well, guess what, Pryor's already done, and Landrieu's probably dead meat in the runoff, so what did building a policy strategy for a 1/3 electorate rather than a 2/3 electorate really accomplish for Obama and the Democrats? Nothing.

                                When Obama has failed, it's not because he's been an impulsive, overreaching warlord, it's because he HASN'T been an impulsive, overreaching warlord who moves aggressively to pass the agenda of the people who showed up to the polls to elect him. He had an opportunity to pass card check early in his administration when there were 60 Democrats in the Senate. Rather than reward the union workers who busted their butts to get him and all those Democrats elected, they turned their backs on them. Rather than reward the Latinos who showed up to the polls in record numbers to re-elect Obama in 2012, he turned his back on them. And, in general, there's been this idiotic tendency for Democrats to play footsie with corporate America rather than embracing a more populist economic agenda, and thereby weakening the standing of working class and minority voters.

                                Do you think maybe an energized Latino base could've helped Udall in hugely Latino Colorado? Do you think maybe if Grimes hadn't run away from what a wild success Obamacare has been in insuring Kentuckyians she might've not been fed her hat by a deeply unpopular McConnell?

                                That's where Democrats screwed up. Bush II, for his many failings, understood how to reward his base voters and he threw red meat to them constantly to keep them happy. That's how he was so politically successful up until the 2006 midterms when the shear weight of his dumbassery finally motivated Democrats to come to the polls and say, "no more" in a midterm. Obama and the Democrats seem to be completely clueless about why a base strategy is typically the only avenue to success in midterm elections.

                                Now, the terrifying thing is, we're getting a pattern developing in American political life where Democrats rule the roost in presidential years and then get killed in midterms. In the long run, that probably works out for Democrats because they can eventually install a new Supreme Court to get dark money out of elections, reinstate voter protections, and eventually break the Republican fix on the House of Representatives. But, that will take decades longer than it has to and will lead to the federal government adopting far more conservative policies than the full electorate of the nation actually wants and needs to thrive (which is anti-democratic, small "d").

                                With that said, let your Republican friends have their fun puffing out their chests for winning, because they'll be twice as upset when Hillary spanks that fanny in 2016.

                                And, before you tell me what a moderate you are Waiver, please understand I'm wise enough to know the terms "moderate," "centrist," and "Independent" are more often than not camouflage for someone who is ashamed to admit what party/policies they actually support (in your case, and the case of many in the country right now, conservative Republicans).
                                S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-Stammermeter 2019-2020: 29

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