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  • Prospect Development Stalling?

    Question to those who pay closer attention to Syracuse than I do:
    Looking at the stats, it looks like only ABB and Foote (and Volkov, natch) are really developing into NHL caliber players.

    It seems odd that nearly all of the highest performing players (Mueller, Conacher, Smith and Gaunce) are vet signees. Wouldn't you expect Katchouk, Raddysh or Stephens to be up there near the top in production? All three are at 4 points in the first 12/13 games.

    I understand that we are still in the early stages of the season, but none of these guys are rookies still trying to find their feet. If anything, I'd expect them to be taking a step forward, but so far it doesn't seem like that's happening.

    Am I reading too much into this?
    Bullshit Centrist and Ondrej Palat fan club member

  • #2
    I have felt that way in regards to Stephen for awhile. Not sure what the problem is, but it's concerning.

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    • #3
      One reason is that Groulx seems to really rely on his veteran players. Other than Barre-Boulet, a lot of those other prospects don't get top 6 ice time or top PP unit time. Interestingly, Katchouk subbed in on the top line with Conacher and Mueller today for Smith who is banged up. He ended up scoring two goals and should of had a third that was waived off by a quick whistle.

      Katchouk and Stephens are excellent penalty killers who I still think can play in a bottom six role at some point. I could see Raddysh being trade bait at some point this season.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Derek28 View Post
        One reason is that Groulx seems to really rely on his veteran players. Other than Barre-Boulet, a lot of those other prospects don't get top 6 ice time or top PP unit time.
        Isnt part of his job to get the prospects ready? Wasn't that why Cooper got the nickname the Rookie Whisperer (at least on BP)? I get that you want the prospects to earn it, but to me it doesn't make a ton of sense to load a team up with vets at the expense of prospects with upside. But far smarter men than me are making the decisions, I'm just curious about the whole not seeing a lot of points out of guys I expected it from.
        Bullshit Centrist and Ondrej Palat fan club member

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        • #5
          I think, more to the point, the prospect pool in Syracuse just isn't as good as it's been in previous years.
          S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-Stammermeter 2019-2020: 29

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          • #6
            Originally posted by pete View Post
            I think, more to the point, the prospect pool in Syracuse just isn't as good as it's been in previous years.
            Obvious, but true, but the Bolts aren't picking until late in round one every year for some time. Call Foote at 14 is our earliest pick in some time. I still feel like they have some good talent there, but no sure fire, can't miss players beyond Foote.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by pete View Post
              I think, more to the point, the prospect pool in Syracuse just isn't as good as it's been in previous years.
              I remember there's been quite a few years where we were looking to draft role players rather than top 4/6 guys; taking low ceiling/high floor low risk picks. But those guys aren't pushing for tweener/bottom line roles either. That's the impetus for the question. I just expected Stephens/Katchouk/Raddysh to be closer I think, if their floors were so high, and they aren't pushing vets out of the way in the AHL either, if what I can glean from the stats is true. Caveat of course is that I'm not watching the games.

              Originally posted by Kizman View Post
              Obvious, but true, but the Bolts aren't picking until late in round one every year for some time. Call Foote at 14 is our earliest pick in some time. I still feel like they have some good talent there, but no sure fire, can't miss players beyond Foote.
              I'd be more apt to believe that draft position was the case if we hadn't pulled like half the team out of later rounds.

              I'm not expecting a Kucherov and Point out of every round, but there's a handful of guys that were expected to push for spots on the 3/4 line, that just aren't, which is why I'm curious about it.
              Bullshit Centrist and Ondrej Palat fan club member

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              • #8
                Point and Kuch, and for that matter TJ and Palat will definitely make the draft position argument look less defendable, but not getting access to top 5 or top 10 players has to, over time, decrease the amount of NHL ready player in your organization.

                Al Murray and the others in our draft room certainly make up for the draft position weaknesses better then any crew that comes to mind, but that being said, it's a factor. It does seem as tho they actually do better on later round picks then the earlier ones. I also wonder how much weight Yzerman had on drafts, especially earlier round picks...just a thought.

                I do agree with the initial point of this thread...that being that the development of players seems to be less then optimal. It certainly seems to be an area to raise a few eyebrows.

                Last thought...they have traded a few players away that are in NHL currently, but I cannot fault any of the moves and I dont see any moves that are easily criticizable.
                Last edited by Kizman; 11-16-2019, 06:02 AM.

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                • #9
                  I've seen a couple Crunch games lately and the current Crunch team may be the worst coached AHL team that we have had in the Yzerman/BriseBois era. Awful effort level, and none of our prospects other than Stephens and ABB (mostly on the PP) look good or look like they are taking steps forward.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Derek28 View Post
                    I've seen a couple Crunch games lately and the current Crunch team may be the worst coached AHL team that we have had in the Yzerman/BriseBois era. Awful effort level, and none of our prospects other than Stephens and ABB (mostly on the PP) look good or look like they are taking steps forward.

                    So...what's changed? Same coaching staff, right? If they are having so many issues, how come no firing of Grouxl?

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Derek28 View Post
                      I've seen a couple Crunch games lately and the current Crunch team may be the worst coached AHL team that we have had in the Yzerman/BriseBois era. Awful effort level, and none of our prospects other than Stephens and ABB (mostly on the PP) look good or look like they are taking steps forward.
                      Not exactly a ringing endorsement.

                      After another 8-10 games or so since I last checked, ABB is still around a PPG, Stephens is about a half, Raddysh is treading water while Katchouk and Volkov's production has actually gone down. If anything, Somppi and Colton are trending up, production wise, but not much else to write home about prospect wise at forward, at least from a pure stat perspective.

                      Not sure how Foote and Masin are developing as that wouldn't really be reflected in the stats.

                      Certainly does not bode well, though.
                      Bullshit Centrist and Ondrej Palat fan club member

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                      • #12
                        Amazing what the addition of Conacher and Smith did to the Crunch. They have put up three really good games in a row.

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                        • #13
                          A little worried about the Goalie depth at Syracuse for immediate future. Think we could be thin if we ever need to use anyone from there to help the Bolts during second season. Guessing JBB knows that...so a depth move might make sense.

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                          • #14
                            The Crunch probably has a bottom five goaltending mix and a bottom five defense. I don't know how you overcome that, no matter how good your offensive unit is. I wouldn't trust any of the goalies or defenders to come up and provide anything meaningful at the NHL level this season.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Derek28 View Post
                              The Crunch probably has a bottom five goaltending mix and a bottom five defense. I don't know how you overcome that, no matter how good your offensive unit is. I wouldn't trust any of the goalies or defenders to come up and provide anything meaningful at the NHL level this season.
                              Cal Foote and Masin are that bad? That's disappointing.
                              Bullshit Centrist and Ondrej Palat fan club member

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